Re: OpenCTI adapter for Genesys

[victor]

Fra,

well, it is not about the risk, but more of whether or not client really needs to continue to use Genesys. I make money one way or another. Plus, it gives me a competitive edge against the company that decided to come up with yet another product that I was making my money on. Before I was a fervent Genesys promoter, and realized that the more you like the company, the more they take you for granted. So, now, I am a bit more realistic: you take my honey, I will move the bees.

The biggest problem for me with building on Genesys is that if it is profitable, Genesys will come out with their own product for it. Despite Genesys assurances to the contracty, they really just want people to integrate their products. I do not see a healthy environment for anyone to invest into building something on Genesys. Case in point: have you ever built a softphone? Replaced with Genesys product. Have you built a wallboard product? Replaced by Genesys. Have you built an adapter to connect Genesys to Salesforce? Replaced by Genesys Callback server? Replaced.  I am sure we all can go on and on about it.

I think Pavel joined Avaya team can share his story of how Genesys stole his idea, and I am sure before long, Adam's license manager will be replaced as well.

As I get older, I find it less attractive installing or customizing Genesys configuration and running the tests. Whether it is working at site installing Genesys or providing consulting services on callflow optimization, it is still MME(man-month-equivalent) billing and you have only 300 billable hours a month. Building a product allows you to instantly bypass this silly 300 hours a month limit and go for the gold. Genesys, unfortunately, despite having all the necessary features to allow developers to blossom, is systematically destroying the environment for anyone but sales and integration engineers. Just ask yourself: it has been ten years for many of you - don't you think by now you have enough know-how and skillset to build something?

Sure, I built SIP Phones, SIP Loggers, Reporting, and so on. But unlike products built for other platforms, the lifespan of Genesys-built products is less than three years. One can argue that Genesys forces you to innovate, and I disagree. We never innovate with Genesys, we just adapt to yet another Genesys expansion into our territory.

And this is why I will continue to make products that allow clients to choose. I am tired of being a fan, and it is time to become a businessman.

[Fra]

Vic,

you have moved the conversation to a different level. My reply was merely a response to your original question to how /whether you can bypass Genesys CTI.I will try to respond to your considerations though.

You're approaching this from an entrepreneur perspective, which is fine, but goes well beyond the technical issue and purpose of this forum, if I may say: the fact you want to make money in the call centre arena is absolutely fine and legitimate, I'm just afraid you're facing the challenges of today's business world.

[quote author=victor link=topic=8592.msg38077#msg38077 date=1418119867]
The biggest problem for me with building on Genesys is that if it is profitable, Genesys will come out with their own product for it. Despite Genesys assurances to the contracty, they really just want people to integrate their products. I do not see a healthy environment for anyone to invest into building something on Genesys. Case in point: have you ever built a softphone? Replaced with Genesys product. Have you built a wallboard product? Replaced by Genesys. Have you built an adapter to connect Genesys to Salesforce? Replaced by Genesys Callback server? Replaced.  I am sure we all can go on and on about it.
[/quote]
I don't really see much of this:
[list]
[li]softphones? There are several around,  most of which custom, so no, I can't say Genesys have replaced any of those on the market; Genesys has always had a softphone since the old days, it would have been very silly not to have one: should they have stopped progressing in their softphone evolution? No. I actually would think it would be bizarre if they didn't have a 'standard' softphone in their offering.[/li]
[li]wallboard: what wallboard product has Genesys come out with? I must have missed that one.[/li]
[li]Salesforce connector: I actually thought it disappeared straight away, as far as I know, it has not even landed on this side of the globe[/li]
[li]callback server: not sure what product Genesys VCB, if you're referring to it, replaced[/li]
[/list]
To me it appears that if someone wants to build something on top of Genesys, it can do it and rely on that: softphone integrations, self-serve applications & integrations, open media / multimedia development etc, reporting development etc.

[quote author=victor link=topic=8592.msg38077#msg38077 date=1418119867]
As I get older, I find it less attractive installing or customizing Genesys configuration and running the tests.
[/quote]
Are you still doing that? I'm actually baffled you are

[quote author=victor link=topic=8592.msg38077#msg38077 date=1418119867]
Whether it is working at site installing Genesys or providing consulting services on callflow optimization, it is still MME(man-month-equivalent) billing and you have only 300 billable hours a month. Building a product allows you to instantly bypass this silly 300 hours a month limit and go for the gold.
[/quote]
I disagree with this. First, there's not just a T&M (Time & Material) approach.  You can deliver something - custom integration, architecture, whatever - and bill it at fixed price.

[quote author=victor link=topic=8592.msg38077#msg38077 date=1418119867]
Genesys, unfortunately, despite having all the necessary features to allow developers to blossom, is systematically destroying the environment for anyone but sales and integration engineers.
[/quote]
In today's world the gentlemen's agreement type of scenario is no longer realistic, so the fact they know you've come up with a brilliant idea and want to follow a similar route is part of what happens in any other industry. The difference is if they're doing this competing against their community, which is shameful. If they're playing unfairly, I can only think of formal agreements between the two parties and patenting your products or becoming their partner. I struggle to believe they'd steal your idea.

[quote author=victor link=topic=8592.msg38077#msg38077 date=1418119867]
Just ask yourself: it has been ten years for many of you - don't you think by now you have enough know-how and skillset to build something?
[/quote]
Perhaps, however, not all of us have an entrepreneur mind (idea+attitude to risk+passion+capital); and also, not all of us are necessarily developers or interested in becoming / running a team that does it for you.

[quote author=victor link=topic=8592.msg38077#msg38077 date=1418119867]
Sure, I built SIP Phones, SIP Loggers, Reporting, and so on. But unlike products built for other platforms, the lifespan of Genesys-built products is less than three years. One can argue that Genesys forces you to innovate, and I disagree. We never innovate with Genesys, we just adapt to yet another Genesys expansion into our territory.

And this is why I will continue to make products that allow clients to choose. I am tired of being a fan, and it is time to become a businessman.

[/quote]
Good luck!

Fra

[cavagnaro]

Hehe you know Vic, he gets passionated sometimes
Now I understand your interest in posting ASAP

Enviado desde mi C6602 mediante Tapatalk

[victor]

Hi, Fra,

your points are well taken, and are valid. It does depend on how you look at it, and, perhaps, I do take it a bit closer to the heart than I should, but I did build my small fortune partially on it.

In Japan, we have about 20 Genesys SEs, and this is what I am seeing:

- my workforce is graying, their income needs are increasing, yet, our charging in T&M is capped per man per month at a fix rate
- the products we have developed are rapidly being squeezed out by Genesys
- it is very hard to migrate from integration company to software company with Genesys
- We need to squeeze our profit margin in order to offer Genesys product without recourse
- (Japan only?) Genesys tries to please large SIers and not end-user

You are very right about looking at it from different perspectives, but at the end of the day, it is all about what you want to achieve. I want to achieve self-sufficient, growing and successful business on a platform that I find technically superior and advanced to anything else out there. So far, it was touch and go.

Perhaps you were more successful: were you able to capitalize on the last ten years of your engagement with Genesys and build something that helps you move up from SE to somebody who does not have to do installs in a middle of a night?

I might have managed to squeeze to the top, away from me, but, majority of my SEs have been doing this for the last ten years, and are still doing it. And that bothers me. A lot.  Because, I do not see Genesys fostering a healthy environment for their integrators: they do encroach on almost absolutely everything we have developed. OpenCTI adapter is another example of it.  The fact that we have to go head to head with Genesys on selling to Genesys client an OpenCTI adapter for Salesforce is baffling to me.

We have a better product, with trackrecord and support, and now, we have to half our price, because we are competing with the vendor... Why?  Because we are uncomfortable with the product they are pushing. Because the product they are pushing to our client is unstable, lacks the necessary support in Japan, and, at the end of the day, simply is not the best option.

If we go with Genesys option, client is hurt, we are hurt, and no one is happy except for Genesys, who gets to use our people as their free test workforce, client as their test platform, and then uses the experience gained at our expense to improve the product to the point where it is of acceptable quality. If we do not go with Genesys, then we are forced to half the price and pay to Genesys.  Is it different from other vendors? Not really... I guess I am just sentimentally attached to Genesys and was hoping they are different...

At the end of the day, Fra, you are right. Genesys is yet another corporation, Instead of dictating to Genesys when you are nobody, build something that take advantage of Genesys weakness and be in a position where you can influence the market directly. Then it would not matter if it is Genesys, Avaya, or someone else. We should not be pro-Genesys. We should be pro-STAR, pro-InfluxSoft, pro-whatever you are running.

I have split this topic, because it did carry away from original topic.