Genesys Support - getting better or worse?

[cavagnaro]

too

[tony]

I jut got notification that Genesys have re-launched their Forum... is that it...

[cavagnaro]

yeah..but I don't think will impact on us...I remember only a few posts and answers, I believe we answered more there than even Genesys guys

[cavagnaro]

Tada! https://forums.genesyslab.com/

[Paul Roberts]

Hi there everyone,

Been a while since I've posted on here. Hope I'm still welcome...

Just reading through this thread and I wanted to take the opportunity to apologize to Tony - the last thing I wanted was to leave you with a feeling of being used by Genesys. When we starting the (unnecessarily long in my opinion) process of evaluating/selecting a platform for our new forum, we really wanted to enlist the help of key Genesys users to help us develop something that people would actually like. After our previous attempt with Better Interactions, we saw this as absolutely critical. The input you and the other customers gave us was fantastic and I genuinely thank you for it. You guys on this forum are so passionate about Genesys we really wanted to consult you about what we were doing and give you a say in it. I guess it didn't work out as I had hoped. The intention was always to give Genesys customers what they wanted  - a means of talking to Genesys through a channel that was user friendly - rather than using your knowledge to benefit us in some sinister way. If that intention didn't come across I'm very sorry and I'll take responsibility for it.

In my role at Genesys I'm always very conscious of burdening our customers with too many requests especially since everyone has day jobs and in your case Tony, that is added to by your tireless work on here. I guess I should have found a better balance between consulting you and showing how that feedback impacted our decisions; making sure i closed the reporting loop in the process. I guess my concern was you thinking 'Genesys is plaguing me with more requests, information etc'

I'm a big fan of this site and the great work the core team does on here. Genesys is very keen to embrace this kind of independent site and I admire the time, energy and effort you expend here and in The Wire too (and I didn't use the work leverage once!).

As I say, I'm very sorry if the process left you feeling a little used. That was actually polar opposite to our original plan.

Paul

[tony]

Thank you Paul - I have left you a PM...

Tony

[victor]

[quote author=Paul Roberts link=topic=3817.msg16930#msg16930 date=1235448907]
Hi there everyone,

Been a while since I've posted on here. Hope I'm still welcome...


[/quote]

Paul,

of course you are welcome. I think conversation in this thread moved away from Genesys Support problems to something else entirely, so we better probably split the topics (and ban our Brazilian friend, Cav, from any more posts in a process  ).

I think the whole thing boils down to less of "feeling used" than of feeling useful. You have to concede that right now there is not a lot of effort in Genesys about harnessing the energy and support of overall Genesys user community. You have been our most ardent supporter and it will be some time before all your ideas about harnessing the incredible potential of Genesys user community will be realized. Re-starting Genesys forum is a good move; however, as I have mentioned in my previous emails, you will be going head-to-head with PS, TS and whatever other two-letter and three letter and even four-letter acronyms. 

In some ways, I think all of us here are a bit full of ourselves, because most of us here are simply because we are Genesys Fans. Genesys did not ask us to become fans, yet, here we are, asking to be recognized for ...just being fans. And we huff and we puff when we do not get something shiny in the mail telling us how much Genesys is grateful to us for what we do.

This reminds me of pretty much every Anime Fan club that have regular meetings, dress up in tight shiny pink and green costumes, have shiny laser guns and a collection of used manga books they trade among themselves. Unless they are organized and have a nationwide following, Anime Publishers try to stay away from them. And in most cases, for very good reason: no worth the trouble; too much hassle; not connected to direct revenue and so on and so forth.

While most of us are working with Genesys, many of us are not in a position to really make a difference for Genesys. We usually get there when Genesys implementation has already been decided upon, plus in rare cases when we do make a case for Genesys roll-out, we depend on that roll-out even more than Genesys, so it is in our own best interests to push Genesys product as much as we can.

I guess our own dependence on Genesys CTI makes ALU less interested in what we have to say, because this is not where the money is. The money is with decision-makers and here most of us are much much below that. We are the techies, the consultants, we are Genesys Fan Club. Until now, it was hard to measure the economic impact our activity has Genesys sales. And because of that, this makes us irrelevant.

No one has asked me to start Genesys Forum, yet I did it. The result is that we have on average 300,000 hits a month on this forum. It is hard to argue the immense benefit Genesys enjoys from this site. Yet, while ALU's marketing budget is measured in hundreds of millions and Genesys is paying huge sums of money to advertise its products, this site is yet to receive a cent.

Pavel launched Wire. Did Genesys offer him anything? Yes, an interview for a second edition and some money that probably will not even be enough to cover the printing of letter "W" in the title of that magazine. And that magazine was ALL ABOUT GENESYS.

I was thinking: what would happen if I start allowing ads from Avaya or Cisco on this forum? Or how about allowing posts soliciting Genesys to Avaya migration? I get a dozen offers a week from different companies willing to pay for placing an ad like that.

I wonder - how much would Avaya give me for this forum...
I wonder how much Cisco would pay Tony to write HOW-TO GUIDES for migration from Genesys CTI to Cisco
I wonder how much more Genesys TS costs would be if we decided to stop answering all Genesys-related queries from India

What does Genesys think will happen if I let Google walk freely on our website? How many Genesys SIers would still show up on front page when you google "Genesys CTI"?

I am sure that you, Paul, are not the only person in the company who is realizing that it is time to take advantage of the immense opportunity this user base offers; however, I have this nagging feeling that you are the only one who wants to see that we all get the credit we deserve.

[b][color=red]I am tired of being a fan, if that means being screwed left and right. It is time for some recognition. A real one.
[/color][/b]

[cavagnaro]

Will post even when I have been banned 
I completely understand you Vic, as you know I also support an Alcatel forum, similar to this one. We also have a lot of tempations from competitors asking us to buy the forum, even once Alcatel offered a sum, which was not even a decent one. However we always decline because we love what we do, as I do on this forum. I understand the feeling completely and agree 100% with you. However expecting to Genesys or ALU offer to recognice our job (and the support we give to their support guys...) is asking a pig to fly...at least not in the way we would love to see.
So as a fan, will stay as a fan because I chose to...if Genesys or ALU gives (not us) but to the forum some recognition will be as steping the moon, as that exciting. 

PS: I'm already tramiting my Brasilian residency...lol

[Adam G.]

[quote author=victor link=topic=3817.msg17006#msg17006 date=1235708923]

Pavel launched Wire. Did Genesys offer him anything? Yes, an interview for a second edition and some money that probably will not even be enough to cover the printing of letter "W" in the title of that magazine. And that magazine was ALL ABOUT GENESYS.

[/quote]

Yo Herr Shvetsky,

I have to stand up here. Since The Wire has come out Genesys have helped a lot more than than you suggest. Every day I'm speaking to a different person in SF or Dallas or Canada or the UK and all of this because Paul is opening doors for the magazine. So far this week alone I've interviewed a VP and had in-depth, multiple, discussions with lots of people about GVP8 and the SDKs. On top of that I'm reading documentation until 2am every day as ground work for my GVP8 review. This is all possible because of Paul. Yes, I have been frustrated in the past but with hindsight this is what I should have expected - until the mag went out it was pure vapourware but now it exists, it's a whole different scenario and Genesys are helping as much as they can. By the interest I'm getting it looks like The Wire could be the unofficial Genesys house magazine. Does anyone here know if there is an in house magazine?

As for the financial side you're almost right. I'm trying to get advertising from Genesys Partners and Genesys themselves to cover the costs as I paid for the first edition out of my own pocket. The second edition will happen too but I personally can not afford to do a third edition and various people at Genesys have been informed of this. So far no-one has offered or paid a cent to help. What The Wire is, is the most cost effective way Genesys and their partners have to communicate with the existing community. Is there a better way to 'up-sell' their software and services?

[victor]

Pavel,

this is the point - it is all Paul. He is the one who recognized the importance of this community. It was him who pushed for promoting on this forum. It was him who pushed for you to get the meetings with the right people. In other words, this is all thanks to Paul and I am thankful to this guy. But, I am seeing how hard it is for him to do this too. And this is what bothers me. He is supporting us because he really believes that this is the right move for Genesys; however, there is only so much that he can do. And this is the problem. We need to give him more ammunition, since it is in our best interests to make sure that he gets heard and his ideas about how to encompass online community presence into Genesys corporate culture are actually implemented. So, I have decided to reconsider allowing Genesys competition to start advertising on this forum. I bet that with Avaya IC article blatantly posted next to HOW-TO Genesys-to-Avaya GUIDES on this forum will probably get things rolling much faster and will have much more impact than anything else we might do.

As for The Wire, Pavel they are doing this because you caught them off-guard and published a magazine all on your own. Plus, since you are actually going to mail it to people whether or not Genesys supports you or not gives them little choice. By the way, I am a bit surprised you think that telling Genesys that unless they front up your third edition The Wire is history is going to somehow persuade them to give you more money. Think about it - are you reaching any new audience that they cannot cover already? Are you providing them with any new value that their own publication cannot generate on its own?

If someone started a magazine about Star Systems and started emailing it to my employees and clients, I would make sure that I get my voice heard in it and I would throw in some money to buy good will, but if I were told that unless I pay for printing the magazine is going to be gone, I would let it die. Nicely. Because, I would not want it to exist in a first place run by someone from outside without my full control. Plus, it would be cheaper and more effective to build upon that issue and start my own mag, adding user content to it along with official STAR news.

I am pretty certain that expecting Genesys to foot The Wire is a bit silly and presumption. You need strong financial backing, Pavel, otherwise, you will lose money. You need a lot more than a shiny (and really awesome!!!!) edition to convince Genesys that you can reach an audience that their PR machine can't.

For the record: I love The Wire and I want you to succeed.
Also, for the record: I want Paul to succeed. But, we can't forget that Paul is a low-level manager in a division inside ALU and there is only so much he can do. This is why I think I better start making waves. BECAUSE we need Paul to succeed.

[Arnaud]

Hey guys,

Greetings.  Vick I know you but I’m looking forward to meeting the rest of the gang personally at some point.

You guys always bring up some very good points on this forum.  We're doing our best to proactively engage the community.  In the past few years we have doubled our product advisory councils, relaunched our Genesys forums, expanded our GForce user conferences to more regions, doubled the number of user groups globally, and revamped our GCAP program specifically to engage more folks like you who are actively involved in the Genesys community.  This is the result of Paul AND 100’s of people from different groups within Genesys focused on Genesys customers and partners. There has also been a lot of work done in the areas of tech support and product quality. 

This doesn’t mean there’s no room for improvement.  There certainly is.  As you know it’s a journey.   

We take customer input very seriously.  I think there may not be enough visibility into what Genesys has been doing to address the issues raised on this board.  Some of them are very complex, some of them take time, and some of them may have been addressed unbeknownst to you. 

I think there’s an opportunity for more dialogue to understand where each side is coming from and to see what core issues we need to tackle together.  We'll follow up on this.

In the end we’re all working towards the same end result.

Arnaud

Arnaud Kraaijvanger
Vice President Marketing Programs
Genesys

[victor]

Arnaud,

thank you for your post. I read and re-read your post and you are talking here about how Genesys is putting a lot of emphasis on customer feedback and proactively managing relation with its clients. No one is here saying Genesys is not doing it: Genesys has been pretty good about this for a very long. G-Force is one of many examples of that. We are not talking about Genesys customer programs here in this sense. We are talking about Genesys fan base.

The whole conversation here is about lack of any visible policies at Genesys regarding tapping into and supporting its online community and my failure to get this forum the attention it deserves within Genesys. With 300,000 hits per month and over 1400 registered users this is THE portal for Genesys online community outside Genesys support site. So, the fact that you and me have met only once in the last year is a good example of what I am describing as my failure to properly address the needs of our community.

How many seminars, webinars, press releases, product trial outs, meet-the-experts and so on Genesys had last year? Hundreds. The fact that we only have two Genesys-related events posted on this site for the whole of last year clearly indicates the lack of strategy within Genesys to pro-actively support its fan base.

People like me and our efforts to help other users are just taken for granted. As my earlier post clear states, this is to be expected since we are viewed as "Genesys fans". Genesys did not ask me to start this forum, nor did they ask me to spend countless hours every week trying to help other Genesys users. I do it because I really enjoy it and because I feel that I can really help other Genesys users out there to fully realize the potential of what this truly visionary product has to offer. I am sure other peope on this forum are pretty much the same.

It is just I am getting tired of being taken for granted.

Once again, I don't blame Genesys for ignoring this community nor do I blame Genesys for not actively supporting it. As you have wrote yourself, there is a lot of activity within Genesys to address the needs of its users. Some of it we see. Some of it we don't. So, it is not Genesys that I blame. Especially not Paul, nor you. It would be silly if I did. Nor would it get me anywhere.

I blame myself. I blame myself for not realizing earlier that if I wanted to have a greater impact in helping our users, I have to stop acting as just being "Genesys fan" and apply the same principals to running this forum as I do with running our company. Call center market has been reshaping for quite some time, and if we are to continue to support  the needs of Genesys user community on this forum to the best of our abilities, it is time we start reflecting these changes.

I would love to have some input from Genesys on what changes would be best suited to address the ever-changing needs of our community; however, perhaps it is time to start welcoming the input from other platform vendors that interconnect with Genesys CTI, because we cannot ignore the strong inter-dependence between Genesys and Avaya, Cisco, Siemens and other manufacturers.

This brings me to another important point: end-user. Until now, it has been all about Genesys for the sake of Genesys. And I feel that we ignoring the obvious: reality that perhaps having Genesys at the end of the day might not be the best answer for the end-user. I, for one, would love to learn more about how migration from PBX-Genesys solution to Genesys SIP-only solution compares to PBX-only solution. I would love to have a resource helping me decide what is best for my end-user, offering me help with upgrades and migrations, allowing me for once to step away from what I want, and understand what is better for my user. Regardless of my own preference.

And this, my friends, what makes the difference between a Genesys fan and Genesys Pro.

[Timur Karimov]

from simple question about support to hard conversation about Genesys. i think it's happen not an every day. and may i put my 5 cent about This Genesys comunity and official genesys suport policy inside the Russia?

well, then i start my own experiense as genesys  engineer ( it's happen about one year ago) i jast find oneself in the right place at the right time =) my company start the first project as the genesys parthner but we hav't any competent people. and i took it upon themselves. got one dvd with distrib, another with docs...and it's all. after two or three answer from genesys technical guys  - " jast run the wizard and it's do it right. but if in result it's not work jast reinstall it". so after it i as the google and found THIS COMMUNITY. And after one years i think and and ask self about - if not this forum could i do in this year all that i made and reach? who know?

well, i want said what no one from official info resource and public genesys "community" can't gave me all what i got from THIS forum.

and another moment, about Gforce and over such activites - it's great. but it is difficult to be effective for the whole world. And it's not a price question. It's jast a political. who travel to such activites from Russia? sales, manager and over co-, vice- and over prisident. what activites make Genesys locale - only sales, marketing and over. if it contain technical content at that all what i already read in the docs and in the conversation with people from this forum.

WBR Timur.

[bcyk]

I really don't know Genesys has 'adjusted' pre-requisites as being Genesys partner or VAR!

Years ago, Genesys partner/VAR must have trained GCE(s) to fulfill part of pre-requisites.
(Or, this pre-requisite was regional dependent?)
Could anyone clarify this point?

Anyway, having completed GCE training courses are not enough; fields experiences are critical as well.


There are many people here without basic Genesys training; they start everything themselves in the hard way by reading manuals, testing and, of course, posting questions here and there. Their lifes would be a bit easier if they had taken basic Genesys training.

A real case some years ago: A Genesys VAR sent an "Genesys Engineer" to fix CCA reports but he did not know what to and how to login DMA. The fact was the "Genesys Engineer" was very new without Genesys knowledge but was appointed to do so.

Genesys could possibly enforce policy on VAR's pre-requisites, to save Genesys image at customer sites!
Ok, fine. If Genesys believes VARs' engineers can self-learn Genesys products and are 'sufficient', it may be a big mistake.

Genesys Support is another issue. For reply such as
    "jast run the wizard and it's do it right. but if in result it's not work jast reinstall it".
is quite common; it is possibly, regions and end-user dependent. It seems that Genesys may assign experienced engineers to support big accounts, or those big accounts force (or/and pay!) Genesys to do so; who know!

[Timur Karimov]

[quote author=bcyk link=topic=3817.msg17025#msg17025 date=1235833876]
I really don't know Genesys has 'adjusted' pre-requisites as being Genesys partner or VAR!
[/quote]
and now it true
[quote]
Years ago, Genesys partner/VAR must have trained GCE(s) to fulfill part of pre-requisites.
(Or, this pre-requisite was regional dependent?)
Could anyone clarify this point?
[/quote]
not only trained but also [b]certified[/b]

[quote]
Anyway, having completed GCE training courses are not enough; fields experiences are critical as well.
[/quote]
thas it my point too - have paper about certified as GCE not enough , the fields experiences is preferd. we all have to many example about supposedly GCE people what don't know , as example, how make simple low-level debug of SIP trafic. or as u said how fix the CCA reports.

[quote]
There are many people here without basic Genesys training; they start everything themselves in the hard way by reading manuals, testing and, of course, posting questions here and there. Their lifes would be a bit easier if they had taken basic Genesys training.
[/quote]
all it's truth but u miss what many of this guys live in different world when EU or USA. for simple training they need not only register and fly to trainng centre, but also got and solve the visas trouble, as example.

And Genesys realy undestud this problem. I have info about local trainning course that start in this year. And in Russia too.
It's certainly simple low-level and entry course, but it all the same good then years ago.

[quote]
Genesys Support is another issue. For reply such as "jast run the wizard and it's do it right. but if in result it's not work jast reinstall it".is quite common; it is possibly, regions and end-user dependent.
[/quote]
may be it realy problems in the our region only, but i mean then we talk about Genesys support  - we talk about ALL GENESYS, not about russian or any other regional support team.